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Author Topic: Can someone please explain water filters to me.  (Read 332 times)

Offline Newbie fishkeeper

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Can someone please explain water filters to me.
« on: April 20, 2017, 12:14:25 AM »
First of all, don't worry, I  know how my  aquarium filters work.
I am talking about  HMA & RO filters.
For my upcoming fish room I want to set up a drip overflow system for fresh water changes.
I know that I will need a  HMA to condition the water  (instead of prime) and I will need a RO  if I am to successfully keep/breed alot of soft acidic water lovers like discus.

That's about as much as I know.
1)
 I need to know what sizes to go for. My room will start around the  1000 litres mark and possibly double in size if things go well. I wouldn't want to have to buy new filters upon up sizing the room so filters to support a  2000 litres  fish room on a  drip system would be needed.

2)
How do I know when the filters need replacing?

3)
Can I set them up inline with each other? For example - mains water > HMA  > RO >  mixing  tank > aquarium. Or would they require separate water supplies ?

If anyone could enlightenment me more on these nifty bits of kit that would be great.
 thumbsup
300ltr temperate tank.
Orange spot cory x 6, Australian rainbow x 4, Western rainbow x 3, Golden zebra danio x 7, Bristle nose x 2, Guppies and Platties (breeding group, Brochis Splendens x 6, Redflank bloodfin tetra x 10,

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    Offline ajm83

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    Re: Can someone please explain water filters to me.
    « Reply #1 on: April 20, 2017, 11:11:09 AM »
    1 depends how much water you want to change daily, how good your water pressure is, the temperature of your water supply etc. use those things to factor how big an RO system you need, the membranes are rated in US gallons per day. Low temperature or pressure = (much) slower output.

    Let's say you want to make 100 litres a day of RO. That is 26 US gallons. However they are rated at a much warmer temperature than we use them, so you would want a 50 or even 75 GPD system to guarantee you make enough. Also bear in mind they waste at least 3 times more water than they produce. If your pressure is under 70 PSI, you might want to consider a booster pump.


    2 on an RO system, you see the TDS PPM in the output water rising. Compared to the input TDS normally you want at least 95% rejection. Good systems will give 99% rejection. Not sure if you were just running HMA, you could maybe monitor chlorine or copper or something.


    3 I think that would be a waste of time to run an RO and a HMA system in series. If you want RO, just run an RO system. The first two (pre-filter) stages are similar to those on a HMA system anyway.

    :)
    « Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 11:15:17 AM by ajm83 »
    Cheers, Andy.

    Offline Newbie fishkeeper

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    Re: Can someone please explain water filters to me.
    « Reply #2 on: April 20, 2017, 12:07:30 PM »
    Thats  interesting ajm  cheers. Would an RO  remove chlorine in the same way as  a  HMA  filter?
    I would probably set them up separate with both having there own feed. This way I can mix water appropriately without having to dechlorinate.
    300ltr temperate tank.
    Orange spot cory x 6, Australian rainbow x 4, Western rainbow x 3, Golden zebra danio x 7, Bristle nose x 2, Guppies and Platties (breeding group, Brochis Splendens x 6, Redflank bloodfin tetra x 10,

    Offline plankton

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    Re: Can someone please explain water filters to me.
    « Reply #3 on: April 20, 2017, 01:28:27 PM »
    I think you would only need the HMA for discus, that's all Joe used and he had show winners......... ;) :)
    Sent from my PC as I still don't understand the the logic for mobile internet usage ;) *grin*
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    Offline ajm83

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    Re: Can someone please explain water filters to me.
    « Reply #4 on: April 20, 2017, 02:12:14 PM »
    Thats  interesting ajm  cheers. Would an RO  remove chlorine in the same way as  a  HMA  filter?
    I would probably set them up separate with both having there own feed. This way I can mix water appropriately without having to dechlorinate.

    IIRC the carbon stage removes chlorine as it would damage the membrane.

    I think you would only need the HMA for discus, that's all Joe used and he had show winners......... ;) :)

    Yes for keeping but for breeding?
    Cheers, Andy.

    Offline Newbie fishkeeper

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    Re: Can someone please explain water filters to me.
    « Reply #5 on: April 20, 2017, 11:10:40 PM »
    I think you would only need the HMA for discus, that's all Joe used and he had show winners......... ;) :)

    But I live in a hard water area. That's why I am considering both.



    IIRC the carbon stage removes chlorine as it would damage the membrane.

    I think you would only need the HMA for discus, that's all Joe used and he had show winners......... ;) :)

    Yes for keeping but for breeding?

    Thats good then so I could possibly get away with just a decent  RO filter and aged tap water to make my home brew that would have the perfect parameters.
    300ltr temperate tank.
    Orange spot cory x 6, Australian rainbow x 4, Western rainbow x 3, Golden zebra danio x 7, Bristle nose x 2, Guppies and Platties (breeding group, Brochis Splendens x 6, Redflank bloodfin tetra x 10,

    Offline Gingerlove05

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    Can someone please explain water filters to me.
    « Reply #6 on: April 20, 2017, 11:19:12 PM »
    Joe (Snowaddict) lives (or lived) in Peterborough which i'm sure has very similar water to what i have (more similar than mine and yours ;) )


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    Offline Newbie fishkeeper

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    Re: Can someone please explain water filters to me.
    « Reply #7 on: April 20, 2017, 11:25:11 PM »
    Joe (Snowaddict) lives (or lived) in Peterborough which i'm sure has very similar water to what i have (more similar than mine and yours ;) )


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Did he ever manage to get them breeding?
    As far as I know HMA  filters dont soften  water like  RO filters do so I think RO  would be the way to go.
    300ltr temperate tank.
    Orange spot cory x 6, Australian rainbow x 4, Western rainbow x 3, Golden zebra danio x 7, Bristle nose x 2, Guppies and Platties (breeding group, Brochis Splendens x 6, Redflank bloodfin tetra x 10,

    Offline plankton

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    Re: Can someone please explain water filters to me.
    « Reply #8 on: April 21, 2017, 10:15:58 AM »
    I think so, if he didn't then Martin just down the road from him did.......PM him, I'm pretty sure he did breed them.
    Sent from my PC as I still don't understand the the logic for mobile internet usage ;) *grin*
    I really hate "autocorrupt"!!!

    "We found this spoon sir"

    Take it easy
    Ian

    Offline SnowAddict

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    Re: Can someone please explain water filters to me.
    « Reply #9 on: April 21, 2017, 10:44:03 AM »
    Hello all, my ears were burning....
    Ok so all mine were kept in HMA water, you could keep them in dechlorinated tap water to be honest.

    Breeding them is another game all together, you'll need RO. I did breed them in RO, and hma but the hatch rate was only 5% in hma.
    If you are serious about breeding them then you need to be prepared with lots of tank space for grow out tanks.
    I'd not keep stock on ro all the time, I'd just select pairs and add them to a cube running on ro. The water will be pure ro and will need to be changed 2x daily in the cubes, the ph will be really unstable and it's the best way to keep it stable without buffering the ph thus raising the kh. The kh needs to be as close the 0 as possible to get god hatch rates, and anything under 4 makes ph unstable.

    If your going ro be prepared for the water bills if your on a meter, my fish room was 6500-7000 litres on a continuous hma drip and cost about £180 a month. Then there's the cost of preheating the water if your storing it.

    Anyways back to the discus, buy them young, grow them out and by the time they are ready to breed you'll have a lot more experience with them and you'll be ready to give it a bash.
    Hope this all makes sense?


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    Offline Newbie fishkeeper

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    Re: Can someone please explain water filters to me.
    « Reply #10 on: April 21, 2017, 11:05:45 AM »
    Thanks folks  I am  really grateful for your wise words.
    £180 a month is monstrous.
    Can I get away without doing the large daily changes if they are on RO  drips?
    300ltr temperate tank.
    Orange spot cory x 6, Australian rainbow x 4, Western rainbow x 3, Golden zebra danio x 7, Bristle nose x 2, Guppies and Platties (breeding group, Brochis Splendens x 6, Redflank bloodfin tetra x 10,

    Offline ajm83

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    Re: Can someone please explain water filters to me.
    « Reply #11 on: April 21, 2017, 12:17:36 PM »
    What's your goal?
    Cheers, Andy.

    Offline Newbie fishkeeper

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    Re: Can someone please explain water filters to me.
    « Reply #12 on: April 21, 2017, 01:53:03 PM »
    What's your goal?

    My goal is to breed and sell enough fish to fund my hobby.
    Discus fish will probably give the best return if I can get it right.
    300ltr temperate tank.
    Orange spot cory x 6, Australian rainbow x 4, Western rainbow x 3, Golden zebra danio x 7, Bristle nose x 2, Guppies and Platties (breeding group, Brochis Splendens x 6, Redflank bloodfin tetra x 10,

    Offline SnowAddict

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    Re: Can someone please explain water filters to me.
    « Reply #13 on: April 21, 2017, 02:50:03 PM »
    Discus will not give you the best return, it's not quite as simple as just breeding them and selling them. There are huge environmental factors that create good and crap discus. Trust me it takes years and years of dedication to get discus breeding right. There's a reason there's not many breeders in the uk. You'll be better with Cory, zebra plecs and other more commonly kept species that you won't struggle to move on.

    You won't be able to sell a discus till it gets to 2" body size, that could take 2/3 months. I'm not trying to put you off but honestly if there was money to be made, enough to cover the hobby, I'd have had a breeding rack set up.


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    Offline Siege

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    Re: Can someone please explain water filters to me.
    « Reply #14 on: April 21, 2017, 06:48:08 PM »
    Hi newbie,

    Everything joe says above makes perfect sense.

    Did you read the article in spring pfk mag, mark Walters talks about his fish room and breeding fish?

    His fish room is large (amazing) and he specialises in breeding catfish (chairman of catfish study group).

    In there he says he 'probably' makes enough money to pay his electric bill!

    People do it for the enjoyment and achievement, a little money coming in is a bonus. It won't pay for all your overheads I am afraid.

    If you can crack a species, brilliant, the sense of achievement will be fantastic, but perhaps start small with little outlay and don't over complicate things?

    Don't want to put you off, but reading your posts reminded me of the article.

    S.





    6 foot, 600L Tropical Tank
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