Water changes.

[plankton]

Keep going, it'll sort.

[TropicalFishForums]

[bradshaw]

Just tested the water again, don't believe this,  Nitrite is still zero, Nitrate is still 40 ppm, but Ammonia has gone up to .50 ppm, fish not been fed for 3 days, water is crystal clear. Will now do yet another water change, this just seem never ending!

[bradshaw]

Tested the water again this morning, Ammonia still the same, done another 4 bucket change, why is the Ammonia still there? How long should it take to get the water right? The tank has been set up now for 12 weeks, the water is crystal clear and the fish look really healthy, advice would be very helpful.

[fishtactic]

Fish in cycling usually does take about 12 weeks but can be a bit longer......it is endless....

Do you have a substrate that could be leaching ammonia, adding to the problems?

Could they be getting anythin to even though you aren't feeding them? Like plants? That would explain it.

[bradshaw]

I have gravel in the tank and no live plants, looks like I will have to persevere a bit longer!

[carranty]

Tested the water again this morning, Ammonia still the same, done another 4 bucket change, why is the Ammonia still there? How long should it take to get the water right? The tank has been set up now for 12 weeks, the water is crystal clear and the fish look really healthy, advice would be very helpful.

Bradshaw, think back to reply #21 (4th November). This was dated roughly 6 weeks after you started a fish in cycle (I don't count the first week as part of the cycle, since there was no ammonia source), and it seemed like the cycle had finally completed. Cycles take longer for some people than others, it depends on a variety of factors including your tap water. 6 weeks is not unreasonable (I'm currently 4 weeks in to a cycle and just over half way there).

At this point, you were advised to wait a while, and then very slowly add fish, instead you chose to fully stock (or even overstock) your tank. I understand that you did this on the bad advice of your lfs, but you have to understand that this effectively restarted your cycle - the biofilter just couldn't cope with the increased demand. You did this on 14th November (I think, correct me if I'm wrong), so based on the evidence on your first cycle, you could expect it to take until the 26th December before its cycled (assuming it cycles at the same rate as it did previously). You're not really 12 weeks into a cycle, it was reset 9 days ago, so you're really 9 days into your cycle.

Since its likely you have some good bacteria already present this time, it may happen faster, but you have to be prepared to it to be many weeks yet before you're seeing zero ammonia and nitrite readings.

EDIT : Also, I don't think the clarity/cleanliness of the water  has anything to do with the cycle. My tank has been cycling for a while now and at no point has the tank been cloudy.

[bradshaw]

Thankyou very much for your reply and advice,surely I dont have to keep doing daily water changes for all that time?

[carranty]

Thankyou very much for your reply and advice,surely I dont have to keep doing daily water changes for all that time?

This really depends on two things;
1) How quickly the ammonia (or nitrite) builds up in your tank.
2) How much you care for the well being of your fish.

Water changes are performed in order to reduce the stress and toxicity to your fish. Anything above 0ppm ammonia is toxic to them, and will either kill them outright or reduce their natural lifespan. You can limit this effect by ensuring that the concentration never exceeds 0.25ppm. This will probably still have an adverse effect on the fish, but it will be limited. As human beings we're exposed to toxic chemicals in the air we breathe all the time, but so long as they're present in small enough concentrations it's something most of us can live with, it's the same with fish.

The reason most people here recommend keeping it to below 0.25ppm, is that it provides a balance between a toxicity that is somewhat tolerable to most fish, and the workload required by the fishkeeper to carry out water changes. Anything above 0ppm is not ideal, but to keep concentrations to 0ppm you'd need to carry out water changes every few minutes! You could also put in less work and let concentrations rise to 0.5ppm, but then this is putting considerably more strain on your fish. It's a balancing act, I can't tell you how many water changes you have to do, I can only advise on how many I would do if I were in your place.

Also be aware that while in high toxicity water the fish may indeed look fine, but in actuality are being harmed in ways that you simply can't see. I'm not saying that's happening in your case, but its something to keep in mind.

[bradshaw]

Thanks again, just tested again and the Ammonia is down, on my API chart the colour is halfway between zero and .25 ppm I think I am finally getting somewhere.

[bradshaw]

Just to be on the safe side,took a water sample into a different  LFS, using the same test kit as me, they said my water was spot on and that I should do another water change in a weeks time, about 20%, so fingers crossed!

[carranty]

Just to be on the safe side,took a water sample into a different  LFS, using the same test kit as me, they said my water was spot on and that I should do another water change in a weeks time, about 20%, so fingers crossed!

Unless ammonia and nitrite levels are absolutely zero (yellow & blue respectively) for at least 3 days running you can't say that your tank is cycled. Just two days ago you were seeing rising ammonia levels!

A 20% water change in 7 days time for an overstocked, uncycled tank is total nonsense. I really am struggling to understand why in the world anyone capable of thinking for themself, would keep listening to the obviously bad advice of this lfs. I think I've laid out the facts quite plainly in my last few posts - as have many other members over the last several weeks - but they're clearly not sinking in. I wish you the best of luck, but I don't think I can advise you any further.

[bradshaw]

I understand what you are saying and I am listening, I was just pointing out what had transpired today. I AM following your advice and will be checking the water daily. I do appreciate your advice.

[DomP]

Carranty has been spot on with his advice here.  I wouldn't listen to your local fish shop any longer.  Test the water before every change.  If it is zero on both counts, then and only then are you ok to relax the water changes, but you should still test daily for a week or so or until you are satisfied that there are no more spikes.  You can then revert to a 10% - 20% change each week.

Good luck.

[fishtactic]

Very helpful posts carranty. I'm having similar problems due to a filter packing up on me so it's helpful to have nice clear explanations of the process.

I've been very lucky as my tank was hardly stocked when it happened but even that's bad enough when you are doing daily water changes!!!!

[bradshaw]

I have done more water changes during the week with a fairly large one today, still can't get rid of the Ammonia though.