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Author Topic: Softening and Acidifying Water Using Natural Materials  (Read 4457 times)

Offline Vale!

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Re: Softening and Acidifying Water Using Natural Materials
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2011, 01:06:54 pm »
There are two 'pairs' of bottles in which the colours are virtually indistinguishable within each pair, so I'm allowing them as interchangeable for scoring purposes.

Allowing that, and given the 'peat' freebie,  Plankton scores ...


[*insert mandatory irritating wait for the result here*]



[*prepare to shoot presenter if he says: "we'll find out after the break"*]



... a very creditable 6 points.  Your Nos. 3 and 6 could bear some further consideration - in the highly unlikely event that you could be bovvered, of course!

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    Offline Vale!

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    Re: Softening and Acidifying Water Using Natural Materials
    « Reply #16 on: August 14, 2011, 01:08:39 pm »
    Why am I humming 10 green bottles?

    I'm sure you're neither colour blind nor innumerate, so I don't know.   Have you been drinking?

    Offline plankton

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    Re: Softening and Acidifying Water Using Natural Materials
    « Reply #17 on: August 14, 2011, 05:43:35 pm »
    Must admit that the Catappa leaves were a bit of a "stab-in-the-dark (no pun intended, oh alright there was)" as I've never seen them used anywhere.....but am a bit surprised that the standard warm was darker than the soft......
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    Offline Vale!

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    Re: Softening and Acidifying Water Using Natural Materials
    « Reply #18 on: December 15, 2011, 10:35:07 am »
    As the issue of bogwood's effect has been raised again today (15/12/11) it seems like a good opportunity to provide some more info here.

    The quote below is an extract from the attached document : copy-and-pasting messed up the tabular arrangement!


    "Bottles of each liquor were shaken and lined up in roughly their order of colour, lightest on the left and darkest on the right.  A is leftmost and H is rightmost:

    A   Bogwood in standard KH at room temp
    B   Bogwood in low KH at room temp
    C   Bogwood in standard KH at 36C
    D   Bogwood in low KH at 36C
    E   Peat
    F   Catappa
    G   Alder
    H   Oak"

    Somewhere I have more close-up piccies of the bottles but I can't locate them at the moment.  If-and-when I do find them, I'll update the document as originally intended!

    Offline IanB

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    Re: Softening and Acidifying Water Using Natural Materials
    « Reply #19 on: December 15, 2011, 11:11:33 am »
    Ok.. now I'm not always great at interpreting things unless laid out in a me-friendly way (and I don't know what that is until I see it.. which is useful).

    But.. I'm a little surprised that, in the bogwood samples, the KH dropping to 1.x didn't cause a ph crash since all the info to date has suggested that low kh results in unstable ph.
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    Offline whippet-gal

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    Re: Softening and Acidifying Water Using Natural Materials
    « Reply #20 on: August 09, 2013, 05:01:25 pm »
    Excellent information, Vale!.  Thanks very much.

    Thought I'd add a reply to bring it back to the top.
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    Offline geoffkemp

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    Re: Softening and Acidifying Water Using Natural Materials
    « Reply #21 on: August 09, 2013, 06:11:01 pm »
    So out of interest what was the most effective at softening and acidifying the water?

    I know that Alder cones and Kappata leaves have other benefits however. 
    Geoff

    Offline whippet-gal

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    Re: Softening and Acidifying Water Using Natural Materials
    « Reply #22 on: August 09, 2013, 06:47:00 pm »
    All the information is in the Tannins.doc in Vale!'s post.

    Have a look, there's loads of interesting results in there.
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    Offline geoffkemp

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    Re: Softening and Acidifying Water Using Natural Materials
    « Reply #23 on: August 10, 2013, 07:43:24 am »
    All the information is in the Tannins.doc in Vale!'s post.

    Have a look, there's loads of interesting results in there.

    Aaah found it, some interesting results there.  Surprised at the bogwood set of results.  Though they kind of sit with what I have found before.  Curious as to know the age of the bogwood.  Looking at the results, could it have already been used in an aquarium already.  This is just based on my expernece of the wood.  Also judging by the staining on the water, this supports that notion.  Below there is a copy of the design I used to peat filter my tap water for use in my aquarium.  When I had my Rio 180, I usedto Water change about 40 litres each week (well every 6 days) and replaced with about 20 litres RO and 20 Litres Peat filtered Tap Water,

    I will see if I can find an actual photo of the setup as it was slightly different in execution. 
    « Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 08:09:42 am by geoffkemp »
    Geoff

    Offline whippet-gal

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    Re: Softening and Acidifying Water Using Natural Materials
    « Reply #24 on: August 10, 2013, 09:05:44 am »
    Yes, I was surprised by the bogwood result, having just bought a piece in the hope it will slightly lower the pH in my 65l tank!

    I'd like to see a photo of your peat filter setup if you can find it, Geoff.
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    Offline paulca

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    Re: Softening and Acidifying Water Using Natural Materials
    « Reply #25 on: August 10, 2013, 09:31:04 am »
    But.. I'm a little surprised that, in the bogwood samples, the KH dropping to 1.x didn't cause a ph crash since all the info to date has suggested that low kh results in unstable ph.

    Lowering the KH does not make the water more acidic.  It just lowers it's alkalinity.  This just means that should acid show up the water has less a capacity to resist having it's pH dropped.

    If you put a few drops of citric acid into the water with a low KH, the pH would crash a lot more than if you put it into water with a high KH.
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    Offline geoffkemp

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    Re: Softening and Acidifying Water Using Natural Materials
    « Reply #26 on: August 10, 2013, 09:46:59 am »
    I'd like to see a photo of your peat filter setup if you can find it, Geoff.

    After rooting around on an old hard drive, here you go, One is of the completed unit, the other is of the "parts" I used.  There is a small hole drilled in the centre of the bucket, maybe 3 - 4 mm across that the water is dispenced into the lower bucket.  I went with the fermenation bin as I had no way to raise the barrel with the tap high enough. 
    Geoff

    Offline geoffkemp

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    Re: Softening and Acidifying Water Using Natural Materials
    « Reply #27 on: August 10, 2013, 09:48:48 am »
    Lowering the KH does not make the water more acidic.  It just lowers it's alkalinity.  This just means that should acid show up the water has less a capacity to resist having it's pH dropped.

    If you put a few drops of citric acid into the water with a low KH, the pH would crash a lot more than if you put it into water with a high KH.

    I think it lowers the buffering capacity, which potenially can cause a PH crash.  Though there needs to be something to effect a Ph crash I believe in the first place. 
    Geoff

    Offline LuminousAphid

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    Re: Softening and Acidifying Water Using Natural Materials
    « Reply #28 on: August 11, 2013, 03:25:07 am »
    Reading this, I haven't seen anyone mention it so far, so I will ask- What is the mechanism by which these materials are able to "soften" the water? Do they absorb dissolved carbonate/bicarbonate? I understand how they would acidify the water, but I'm having trouble understanding how they are "un-dissolving" materials out of the water. Do they perhaps have compounds in them which precipitate the carbonate and de-activate it, sort of like some water conditioners do with chlorine?

    Furthermore, if I already have nice soft water, will using these materials do anything for me besides acidify? Or would my water already be so soft that it wouldn't make any difference in KH? Would they start to increase the hardness if RO water was used to start with, or would they keep it close to 0?

    Offline geoffkemp

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    Re: Softening and Acidifying Water Using Natural Materials
    « Reply #29 on: August 11, 2013, 07:00:42 am »
    LA,

    I believe the actual process is known as infiltration.  The water perments through the softening media over time, with the appropriate Ions from the softening media latching on to the water ions.  Or something along those lines.

    Geoff